"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison.
The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy."
—Paracelsus (1493 - 1541)
My comment posted on the Anti Dairy Coalition web page
I'm having a difficult time understanding how Mr. Cohen, who otherwise seems
a thoughtful and informed man, can support this absurd anti-dairy campaign
in light of overwhelming medical and scientific evidence that supports the
healthfulness of dairy products for most people. The only explanation is
either he has a very poor background in science and critical thinking, or
more likely, political and/or financial motives. Despite all the propaganda
on this page, unless you are lactose-intolerant, dairy products are good
Robert Cohen’s response to my post:
Dear Stephen, The number one selling book in the history of mankind is the
BIBLE. The number two selling book is CHILD CARE by Benjamin Spock, MD. Before
his death Dr. Spock edited the last version of his immortal book which now
is his legacy. In that final version this man of great vision and wisdom
advised that no human should ever drink cow's milk. His milk knowledge was
built upon a solid foundation of scientific studies, as is mine. More than
three hundred of those references can be found on this site. I appreciate
your opening comment and would like to help you overcome your difficult time
in understanding why the body fluids of cows are not the perfect food for
your body. Just as you instinctively know not to drink dog's milk or pig's
milk or even human breast milk, for the substances so contained, I wish to
help you transfer that logic to cow's milk.
All of your life you have been told that cow's milk is essential for good
health. Your parents told you at a time in your life when you knew less than
100 words. Your teacher told you long before you completed your kindergarten
education. Today's newspapers and magazines and billboards continuously bombard
you with the carefully marketed dairy industry message.
Eighty percent of that wonderful protein in milk is CASEIN, the same glue
used to hold label to a bottle of beer. Has anybody told you that...or this?
There are 59 different bioactive hormones in every sip of milk. Here's a
tasty bit of trivia... Sixty percent of America's cows have leukemia and
eighty percent have a bacteria called mycobacterium paratuberculosis... You
drink body fluids from diseased animals in the name of good health. The sieve
used when milk is collected filters the milk which contains essense of pus,
mucus, blood, bacteria and feces. Does this sound wholesome to you? If you
are the average American, in 1999 you will consume from milk and dairy products
the equivalent cholesterol contained in 19,345 slices of bacon.
If you are still having "a difficult time understanding..." I would suggest
that you begin by reading my weekly columns which are archived at the NOTMILK
and ANTIDAIRYCOALITION sites. Regards,
My reply to Robert Cohen:
The purpose of the Anti Dairy Coalition is to dissuade consumers from drinking
milk. Why? The reasons are many, but I suspect they all rest on a single
guiding philosophical principle: animal rights. If people choose not
to consume meat and dairy products for moral or ethical reasons, that is
fine, but when the Anti Dairy Coalition attempts to bolster this philosophy
with emotional appeals based on unfounded nutritional claims, its message
loses all credibility. Such erroneous claims deceive the unwitting parent
interested in making informed decisions concerning the health of his or her
I am in no way affiliated with the Dairy Industry. I’m a consumer; a
truck driver by profession. I also am one who appreciates the pursuit of
truth, which in modern times is best divined through the scientific method.
It is this method that has built the body of scientific evidence from which
the medical and scientific community has drawn to reach the consensus that
milk is indeed good for adults and children over two years of age.
I concede that no one absolutely needs milk. And I’m aware that
many people are lactose-intolerant, especially American Blacks. But most
lactose-intolerant adults can consume about a pint of milk per day without
severe symptoms, and of course the problem can be easily remedied by taking
Lactaid, or an equivalent.
Mr. Cohen cites Dr. Benjamin Spock’s book _Child Care_, wherein Dr.
Spock counsels against children over age two drinking milk, and in which
children are advised to eat meat only sparingly. Childhood nutritionists,
pediatricians, and even Dr. Spock’s own co-author, Dr. Steven Parker,
consider this particular approach in Dr. Spock’s otherwise terrific
book to be extreme and likely to result in nutritional deficiencies unless
it is very carefully planned and executed.
The book states that "most green leafy vegetables and beans have a form of
calcium that is absorbed as well as or even a bit better than that in milk."
But nutrition experts note that calcium-rich vegetables contain substances
like oxalates, phytates and other fibers that interfere with calcium absorption
in the gut. It would be very difficult for a child to get adequate calcium
from vegetables in the quantities needed to support
bone growth. Moreover, children having to follow a vegetarian diet free
of dairy products could place undue pressures on children, few of whom like
to be different from their friends. Let’s face it, to ensure that kids
get adequate calcium, how many kids, in lieu of drinking milk, will willingly
eat soybeans, broccoli, and kale?
Mr. Cohen asserts that humans instinctively know not to drink dog’s
milk or pig’s milk, and that this logic should be transferred to the
drinking of cow’s milk. I would argue that humans don’t instinctively
know to, or know not to eat any particular kind of food, save for
mother’s milk. Paleolithic humans’ deciding whether a certain food
was safe to eat, especially plants, was a gradual trial-and-error process
which, I’m sure, resulted in many sick tummies over the centuries. The
common tomato was not deemed to be safe to eat until thousands of years after
cow’s milk was.
Mr. Cohen describes the protein casein as a glue that affixes labels to beer
bottles. Well, school glue and wallpaper paste are made from rice. Ought
we now avoid eating rice because it has utility other than as food? If the
concern is digestibility, homogenization and pasteurization cause casein
to form weaker, looser curds than they normally do. Some people are allergic
to casein. That is a good reason to avoid drinking milk. Mr. Cohen
claims that “sixty percent of America's cows have leukemia and eighty
percent have a bacteria called mycobacterium paratuberculosis.” First,
these statistics are plain wrong. Second, there is no evidence that the Bovine
Leukemic virus is a threat to the health of the milk drinker. Mycobacterium
paratuberculosis is killed by pasteurization. Only drinkers of raw milk are
I urge readers of the Anti Dairy Coalition web page to approach it with a
healthy dose of skeptic It is an agenda-driven, cult-like group that
has skirted a large body of sound scientific and medical evidence,
and trotted out a specious array of nutritional misinformation and alarmist
Robert Cohen’s reply:
Dear Mr. Daniels,
This is your second post in four days. The first contained just a few sentences.
This one is over 500 words and includes many factual debates and philosophical
discussions. A response to each of your points would fill pages. However,
there is no way to do justice to you or to my readers by answering your post
in its entirety. It would be bulky and burdensome to read. I invite you to
re-submit as many points as you wish, one question or comment at a time,
please. I would like to address your first major comment which includes an
assumption that the ANTIDAIRY Coalition (ADC) began out of compassion to
animals. While we in the ADC support animal rights issues, we prefer to say
that we began because of ourcompassion to people. We care about your digestion
and your circulatory system and your bones and the cancers and diseases and
allergins which invade your body. By discontinuing all milk and dairy products
you will allow your body to digest foods better. You will eliminate dangerous
animal fats and cholesterol. You will not receive large daily doses of powerful
growth hormones, one of which (IGF-I) has been identified as the key factor
in the growth and proliferation of human cancers. We care very much about
animals but the man and woman and child comes first. We love animals and
many in our coalition refuse to eat anything with a face, myself included.
However, our primary passion is a compassion for humans.
A reply from an anti-milk supporter, Dave Rietz:
The purpose of the Anti Dairy Coalition is to dissuade consumers from drinking
milk. Why? All the answers are one either www.notmilk.com and/or
www.antidairycoalition.com For a quicky lesson, though... I have taken the
time to develop what follows: ******** MILK (Yes... mother natures "perfect
food" ... for a calf!)
For more info go to http://www.notmilk.com and http://www.antidairycoalition.com
Diabetics please read http://www.antidairycoalition.com/011099.html Here
is a mini-lesson on milk.
Facts: 1cc of commercial cow's milk is allowed to have up to 750,000 pus
cells and 20,000 live bacteria... before it is kept off the market.
1 liter = 1000cc = 750,000,000 pus cells ~ 20,000,000 bacteria
1 tsp = 4.928922cc 3,696,691 pus cells ~ 60,000 bacteria
1 tbls= 14.78676cc 11,090,070 pus cells
1 oz = 29.57cc 22,177,500 pus cells
1 cup = 236.5882cc 177,441,150 pus cells ~ 4,731,600 bacteria 24 oz (3 glasses)
532,323,450 pus cells ~ 14,220,000 bacteria
1 quart = 946.3529cc 709,764,675 pus cells ~ 18,920,000 bacteria
1 gallon= 3785.412cc 2,839,059,000 pus cells ~ 75,708,000 bacteria
Now... milk also has 59 bioactive hormones (perhaps the worst is insulin-like
growth factor one [IGF-1]... which is identical between cows and humans,
and extra amounts in our bodies might be thought of as cancer "fuel cells"),
up to 52 residual antibiotics (and they only test for a few), allergens,
blood, feces and the above. Check out http://www.notmilk.com for particulars...
and http://www.antidairycoalition.com for lots of additional proof. Calcium?
Where do the COWS get it? Yes... from greens! The calcium in cows milk is
basically useless (those nations with the highest amount of milk/dairy
consumption have the highest rates of osteoporosis... to go along with high
rates of heart disease and other fat/allergen related diseases). MILK: 87%
of milk is water. 80% of the protein in milk is casein... better used as
a glue for furniture or to fix labels on beer bottles.. This protein may,
in fact, LEACH calcium from the person you uses milk and dairy... which would
help to explain the high rate of US osteoporosis. IGF-1 is a normal part
of ALL milk... the newborn is SUPPOSED to grow quickly! What makes the 40%
of obese American consumers think they need MORE growth? They don't think
anything about it because they are not told about it. Monsanto's Posilac
creates additional IGF-1 in milk, up to twice as much per 12 ounce glass.
Only twice as much (of a powerful growth hormone)? OK... try out some math.
It takes TEN pounds of milk to make one pound of cheese. It takes twenty-one
pounds of milk to make one pound of butter. Now...that means that each slice
of cheese from BGH treated milk has 20 times as much of this growth factor...
and each pat of butter has 42 times as much as a simple 12 ounce glass of
milk. Pasteurization does NOT destroy IGF-1. If that process was truly effective,
it would not have to be repeated several times before the milk gets to consumers.
Where was this massive "milk is a must" before refrigeration, pasteurization
and mass transportation? Back when cows gave only 1-4 quarts a day (while
lactating) it was made into BUTTER! Now that those same cows have been tweaked
and shot-up with Posilac to produce 50 or more quarts a day... all year long...
it is suddenly (after many thousands of years) a daily "staple". NOT! MILK:
What a surprise! In a short sentence, Stehpen, cow's milk is very unhealthy
and just the opposite of what THEY tell us it is. Regards... Dave Rietz My
response to Dave Rietz: << In a short sentence, Stehpen, cow's milk
is very unhealthy and just the opposite of what THEY tell us it is.
My reply to dave Rietz:
Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond to my comment on the
AntiDairyCoalition Page. I'm not sure what you mean by "what THEY tell us
it is." I don't see the issue as US vs. THEM. When you polarize issues into
US vs. THEM camps this suggests to me that you are prone to clinging to dogma,
rather than examining each facet of the issue individually, disinterestedly,
and objectively. When you adopt this sort of attitude, you are inclined to
rather religiously accept erroneous information uncritically.
You will notice this is exactly what I have NOT done in my post. I have conceded
that for those who are morally opposed to meat and dairy, eschewing them
is quite fine. The same goes for those who are allergic to dairy products.
I also pointed out, FACTUALLY, the errors in Robert Cohen's arguments in
response to my post. I took the time to consult the literature in peer-reviewed
journals AND I presented Mr. Cohen’s arguments to pediatritions and
nutritionists who took the time to point out the errors in these arguments.
Robert Cohen's web page is rife with errors of fact marshalled to further
an agenda. I've read many of the endorsements on his comments page, and I
must say I find them laughable. The people who have made these endorsements
are like sheep in a flock following the shepard. When you turn a philosophy
into a religion, that's just what you get.
When I get the time, I'll respond to the blizzard of "facts" you provided
me. I hope, however, that you will try to put aside your prejudices and examine
my responses with at least a modicum of open-mindedness.
Dave Rietz replies:
><< In a short sentence, Stehpen, cow's milk is very unhealthy and
just the > opposite of what THEY tell us it is. >> >Thanks for
taking the time and effort to respond to my comment on the
>AntiDairyCoalition Page. I'm not sure what you mean by "what THEY tell
us it >is."
Gee... that should be the most obvious...
Dairy Commission/folks ===> government ===> media ====> doctors
The long established trail (since about the 30's when pasteurization,
refrigeration and mass transpiration made it possible to get it to most
customers... before it turned rotten!).
How are you going to negate the FDA's allowed levels?
How are you going to refute the New York Times and separate Consumers Union
findings of up to 52 residual antibiotics?
How are you going to deny 59 hormones?
How are you going to deny that IGF-1 is a very powerful growth factor?
How are you going to prove that the stomach destroys all the stuff YOU folks
insist doesn't get to the gut... but that we KNOW does, because the growth
factors DO work! The mothers immunization goodies DO work.
Check the ingredients of milk from various critters and you will find they
are all different. Guess why.
Again... that soy milk does not have 59 hormones, allergens, blood, pus,
feces, and other baggage such as casein... an excellent glue.
Herbicides/pesticides (being equal) can be worked on... and the first order
of business is to get rid of Monsanto's genetically engineered plants that
are designed to withstand a 100 times the amount that kills everything else
in the vicinity. Guess where all that extra "Roundup" herbicide ends up!
(Hint: same place as Monsanto's DDT, PCB's, dioxin's, and other poisonous
Save yourself the wasted time and effort ... and spend it with your family.
******* MILK: THE DEADLY POISON, by Robert Cohen *******
TOLL FREE 888-NOT-MILK -or- http://www.NOTMILK.com
Each sip contains bacteria, virus, cholesterol, fat,
antibiotics, insecticides, blood, pus, allergenic bovine
proteins and powerful growth hormones.(A MUST read book!)
My response to Dave Rietz:
I’m dismayed that as a seemingly intelligent person, you have chosen
to forfeit your capacity to think for yourself, and you have resorted to
parroting the nonsensical tripe found on Ringmaster Robert Cohen’s web
page. I’m not sure if it’s worth my time to address your response
when, playing the role of Mr. Cohen's head toady, all you do is cut and paste
mindless twaddle from his daffy site. But what the bugger, I’ve got
a few minutes.
Regarding your response to my e-mail: allow me first to correct your grossly
“Dairy Commission/folks ===> government ===> media ====> doctors
Governmental, private, and university sponsored scientific research ===>
Peer-reviewed scientific journals ===> Doctors, Popular media, Dairy
Commission, PR firms ===> mom
Now let’s take a look at the subtitle of Mr. Cohen’s book:
“MILK: THE DEADLY POISON, by Robert Cohen. Each sip contains bacteria,
virus, cholesterol, fat, antibiotics, insecticides, blood, pus, allergenic
bovine proteins and powerful growth hormones.”
Let’s assume that Mr. Cohen’s list of ingredients in each sip of
milk is factual. The question is, given this hypothetical in the minute
quantities that they occur in milk, DOES IT MATTER?
This is where animal rights activists' fear-mongering and logic go
helter-skelter. It is a principle of toxicology, Paracelsus’s famous
dictum, that “only the dose makes the poison.” Those words should
guide us all, individuals, risk assessors, and regulators alike, as we assess
the risks of any substance we find in our food. Take the diet of vegens:
Plants. Plants seem harmless enough; after all, if they weren’t, the
ultra health-conscious vegens would surely disdain them.
But, wait! It turns out that maybe plants are not nearly as innocuous as
Plants are brimming with pesticides. Not man-made pesticides --
natural pesticides. Sounds like an oxymoron, doesn’t it. I assure
you it’s no oxymoron. Plants, having co-evolved over millions of years
with their herbivorous enemies, have evolved an impressive arsenal of natural
pesticides with which to withstand attack. Human dietary intake of nature's
pesticides is about 10,000 times higher than human intake of synthetic pesticides
that are rodent carcinogens. Here’s a laundry list of just a few of
these noxious chemicals that plants manufacture to keep us plant eaters at
NATURALLY OCCURRING MUTAGENS and CARCINOGENS
FOUND in PLANT FOODS and BEVERAGES:
ACETALDEHYDE (apples, tomatoes) mutagen and potent rodent carcinogen
AFLATOXIN (nuts) mutagen and potent animal carcinogen; also a human carcinogen
ALLYL ISOTHIOCYANATE (arugula, broccoli, mustard) mutagen and rodent carcinogen
BENZALDEHYDE (apples, coffee, tomatoes)
BENZO(A)PYRENE (bread, coffee, pumpkin pie, rolls, tea)
mutagen and rodent carcinogen
BENZYL ACETATE (jasmine tea)
CAFFEIC ACID (apples, carrots, celery, coffee, pears, grapes, lettuce, mangos,
potatoes) rodent carcinogen
ESTRAGOLE (apples, basil)
ETHYL ALCOHOL (bread, red wine, rolls, tomatoes)
rodent and human carcinogen
ETHYL BENZENE (coffee)
ETHYL CARBAMATE (bread, rolls, red wine)
mutagen and rodent carcinogen
FURAN AND FURAN DERIVATIVES
(bread, onions, celery, mushrooms, sweet potatoes, rolls, cranberry sauce,
many are mutagens
(bread, coffee, nuts, rolls, sweet potatoes)
furan derivative and rodent carcinogen
mutagens and rodent carcinogens
HYDROGEN PEROXIDE (coffee, tomatoes)
mutagen and rodent carcinogen
HYDROQUINONE (coffee, black pepper, mango)
METHYLGLYOXAL (coffee, red wine)
mutagen and rodent carcinogen
PSORALENS (celery, parsley)
mutagens; rodent and human carcinogens
QUERCETIN GLYCOSIDES (apples, onions, tea, tomatoes)
mutagens and rodent carcinogens
SAFROLE (nutmeg in apple and pumpkin pies, black pepper)
SYMPHYTINE (comfrey tea)
Whew! Odd that vegetarians subsisting on of the above cocktail of poisons
that our streets aren't littered with their rotting corpses?
But they ain't! Why's that?
For the same reason that the streets aren’t littered with the corpses
of meat eaters.
THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.
The fact remains that the American food supply is by far the best in the
world—and the best it has been in the history of this country. It is
the best not only in terms of its abundance and variety, but it's also the
best in terms of its safety. And that includes milk.
Note: It has now been over a year since my last response, and I haven't heard
a peep out of the Anti Dairy bunkum peddlers since. When you present an
agenda-driven group with the facts, they will eventually come around or,
more likely, they will turn a blind eye and concentrate on peddling their
codswallup elsewhere, as they did here.